A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

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StevieRay
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A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:39 am

Hi everyone, StevieRay here.

I'm relatively new to the whole NDE thing and have been riveted by them over the past few weeks while watching many stories on YouTube and reading about some in books, etc.

In the process, a few thoughts/questions have arisen in my mind. I would appreciate your opinions. (Keep in mind, I am coming from a Christian background):

1. From the NDE stories I've read, none of the spirit beings have specifically identified themselves as "Jesus" or "Buddah" or some other earthly religious leader. But, rather, the experiencers tend to "assume" that this is who they are meeting. So, it appears that confessing Jesus as your "personal Savior" is not necessary for salvation, right? That God is OK with all religions?
2. I was taught that when we confess our sins to God forgives and forgets them. With that in mind, will those confessed sins still appear in our life review?
3. Do you think it's possible that there will still be a FINAL judgement conducted by God himself when we die for good--and that the life review that NDErs have experienced was only a preliminary one, if you will, because they are returning to Earth?
4. As a Christian, I was taught that we and the angels would be worshipping God in Heaven. Yet, from the NDErs experience, there doesn't seem to be any "worship" per se, taking place at all.
5. OK, finally, and I need to be tactful with this question: During the life review, do our personal sexual activities appear? This could be embarrassing for sure (at least for me. haha)

Thanks for your feedback, everyone!
StevieRay



Ace
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by Ace » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:38 pm

StevieRay wrote:Hi everyone, StevieRay here.

I'm relatively new to the whole NDE thing and have been riveted by them over the past few weeks while watching many stories on YouTube and reading about some in books, etc.

In the process, a few thoughts/questions have arisen in my mind. I would appreciate your opinions. (Keep in mind, I am coming from a Christian background):

1. From the NDE stories I've read, none of the spirit beings have specifically identified themselves as "Jesus" or "Buddah" or some other earthly religious leader. But, rather, the experiencers tend to "assume" that this is who they are meeting. So, it appears that confessing Jesus as your "personal Savior" is not necessary for salvation, right? That God is OK with all religions?
2. I was taught that when we confess our sins to God forgives and forgets them. With that in mind, will those confessed sins still appear in our life review?
3. Do you think it's possible that there will still be a FINAL judgement conducted by God himself when we die for good--and that the life review that NDErs have experienced was only a preliminary one, if you will, because they are returning to Earth?
4. As a Christian, I was taught that we and the angels would be worshipping God in Heaven. Yet, from the NDErs experience, there doesn't seem to be any "worship" per se, taking place at all.
5. OK, finally, and I need to be tactful with this question: During the life review, do our personal sexual activities appear? This could be embarrassing for sure (at least for me. haha)

Thanks for your feedback, everyone!
StevieRay
Hi StevieRay,

1) I think how you interpret your own NDE has something to do with your culture and the beliefs you were raised with. I wasn't raised in a religious environment, so I wouldn't use the word "god" to describe what I experienced. But I can understand why someone who was raised in a religious environment would use that word. Whatever you call it, it seems to be there for all of us, regardless of our personal belief system.

2) N/A, since I've never done confession.

3) No

4) There doesn't seem to be a question here.

5) Sex is just a normal part of life, so why would it be excluded?

StevieRay
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:41 pm

Ace, thanks for the feedback.

I'd be interested in knowing your story. Is it posted anywhere online?

Also, regarding question 4, I guess I was simply making an observation, and would welcome any thoughts on my perceptions. From the NDEs I've read, no one reports of any such worship.

Thanks again!

Ace
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by Ace » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:02 pm

No, I don't have my experiences posted online.

ano1
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by ano1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:08 am

StevieRay,

In answer to your questions:

1) I didn't actually stay dead, I only visited - all nder's only visited. I only know that I was told: "It's all about Love." I think religion helps people find a connection to spiritual awareness.
2) Yes?
My life review happened prior to the deeper visit. The life review was in a way, judgement.
4) Again, we only visited, briefly.
5) My life review seemed to center on other people and their specific feelings associated with our interaction.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by DennisMe » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:53 am

Welcome Stevie Ray,

I'm a trained pastor in a mainstream protestant church so I tend to approach NDEs in relation to my faith. They have taught me a lot as has my own experience which made me a seeker in stead of a know-it-all.

"So, it appears that confessing Jesus as your "personal Savior" is not necessary for salvation, right?"

What I have found from studying Christian theology is that a lot of the articles of faith are based on the assumption that the bible is the one and only true source of knowledge. You probably already discovered that its not quite that simple. As such, its impossible to reconcile knowledge gained from NDEs with fundmentalist christian faith. You know what I mean; the "cover to cover" gospel truth kind.
NDEs teach us that God is unconditional Love and therefore unconditionally loving which implies forgiving and not vengeful among many other kind of obvious things. This is the God that always spoke to me through the bible and the many people he sent across my path. I recognize the Loving Father that Jesus spoke of in almost all of the NDE stories I read (thousands!).

" That God is OK with all religions? "
The message seems to be that religions are a valuable tool to pry open our human eyes which we are conditioned to keep closed. As such its effective, but prying open our eyes is only the beginning. We must transcend our religion and our religious differences in order to be even closer to God and not unimportantly, each Other! What God is really OK with is love! If our religion leads to more love, then God and all his friends will be cheering us on, count on it! If it leads to hate or indifference; better watch out! Note that in such cases it is often the interpretation of the 'offenders' religion that is the real problem. See, God is like the sun that warms sinners and saints alike, and this love will turn even the 'worst' religion to good in the end.

Re god forgetting sins.
God cannot forget, that would make him imperfect and it would re-define your very existence to do so! Our sins are part of who we are, they shape us into what we are and God loves us anyway! Whats important is to learn their lessons (and act on that) and move on. God will not hold them against you. He's not the big ol' accountant in the sky. More like a loving grandma that will be grateful when we get out of 'jail'. Sins do appear in many life reviews but to my knowledge no research has tied the content of life reviews (or lack of content) to confession, whether that be to God in prayer or to a priest or the brothers and sisters. The life review is a learning experience and people are often guided in a loving and trusting atmosphere while reviewing their lives. They are never taunted or judged except by their own conscience! In this light Matthew 7 vs 2 takes on a very literal meaning!

re:3) a final life review. Perhaps, but there's no 'supporting evidence' besides christian theology. I think its a relic of an "angry and vengeful god" I don't believe that is how God really is.

4) not quite. Our very life is our song, our worship, its like music to God's ears. Many NDEs speak of angelic and worshipful music that permeates everything in the "higher spheres". A lot of worship going on. Also, there are 'places' in heaven where like minded people go and there may well be exclusive communities worshipping god in very specific ways. These souls will not always be aware of other realms around them. The house of my Father has many dwellings is very true.

Sexual stuff in NDEs. I remember reading about one man who was in the company of Jesus speeding away from Earth through the universe when he momentarily thought "what about sex". Jesus, who could read his thoughts, immediately broke out in laughter, breaking the ice. It was absolutely no problem at all.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:26 pm

Thanks for all the great responses, everyone. I appreciate it.

Dennis, I'm intrigued to know that you're a Christian pastor as well as someone who believes in what experiencers are telling us. With that in mind, can I bother you with a few questions?

1. When first learning about NDEs, did it shake your faith? I mean did you have trouble reconciling your beliefs with what experiencers were telling us? You know, Jesus is the only way to god, there's no final judgement. Even Hell seems now to be questionable.


2. So, from what we learned from experiencers, who was/is Jesus anyway? Was he truly divine, or simply a great human teacher like Buddah, Mohammed, etc? After all, from all of the NDE stories I've read, the experiencers never say anything like "he told me he was Jesus." But, rather some of the Christian experiencers seem to assume who they are encountering is Jesus.

3. I venture to say that not many Christian pastors would accept NDE stories as well as you have. So, I applaud your ability to go beyond your faith's traditional teachings/dogma and accept the NDE stories as a part of the greater truth. I for one believe them to be valid.

4. In your mind, what scriptures really enforce what experiencers have said. For me, it's the many references to "light" and the "light of the world" and the focus on love. There are other scriptures that don't seem to coincide with what Near deathers are telling us.

Thanks again, Dennis! I appreciate your insights.
Last edited by StevieRay on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

StevieRay
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:27 pm

Oh, one more thing ... Dennis. Did you have an NDE yourself? If so, I'd love to hear more.

Thanks.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by ano1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:56 pm

StevieRay,
I guess what I was mostly trying to say, is; I wish people wouldn't get so hyped up on our ndes. Life changing they are. But, we only stayed a short time. No one knows beyond near death. Death itself is likely to be very different than our experiences.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by DennisMe » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:51 am

StevieRay, sure I like talking about these things.

Here's a link to my experience. Its not an NDE but it was most definitely spiritually transformative.
http://www.oberf.org/dennis_m_ste.htm

My faith can't really be shaken because it is precisely what the word says "faith". Faith is simply trust (as it says in the original Koiné Greek of the New Testament) and if I have anything that defines me it is this basic trust that God will be there for me, always. Its actually very child-like, like a baby lying in his or her mother's arms and knowing everything will be all right. Sure the world is often cold and hard but there is always mother's love. Obviously my image of God is kind of androgynous; God is like a Father but no less like a Mother. Sorry for using Him for God, Its just following tradition (English lacks a neuter singular personal pronoun that does God justice).
My beliefs are plastic because of this basic faith and relatively easily molded. When pressed to choose between my faith (as above) and a church, community or whatever teaching, I approach it from my faith outward.

What has often helped me is to ask myself the question "What does this teaching say about God, what does it make Him out to be? If that is not the God that nurtures and loves beyond belief, beyond faith and beyond reason, then it falls short.
I guess that approach has pared my religion down to a very minimalistic set of core beliefs. I think of it like cutting a rough diamond. Yes you are removing valuable material along with the crud, but in the end you are left with a magnificent gem.

This didn't all happen overnight, it took time, a lifetime and its still an ongoing process. I've seen the inside of most types of churches and understand how people in them understand their faith. I know their fears and their joys because I have lived them. It hurts to see how intolerant Christians can be toward each other but I understand the fear that keeps them clinging to dogma.
Its not only due to NDEs that my faith has been reshaped. This happened because I felt what it feels like to be with God in mt STE. That fixed reference point allows me to really feel what is of value and what is causing distress. The last realization that I had was how unconditional God's love really is. As a child I already knew that a loving God would not let souls be tormented for ever in Hell. After all I wouldn't do that to my worst enemies and I refuse to believe that I am better than God in any respect! There are people reporting hellish NDEs, but I refuse to believe a God of Love would let people rot for eternity unless they keep choosing this terrible existence in each moment.

To me Jesus is divine. As You are divine. As I am divine. As We are divine. He was as it were the "primus inter pares", the first among equals. He was not like Gandhi, Gandhi was also divine in his own way, as MLK jr, Mother Theresa etc.. And still he was like them. Its a paradox but it is all resolved when we realize that we are all separate but equal. Jesus was in communion with God in the very close and personal way that we all are supposed to be. An example to follow, even if we can never make it our reality, the pursuit itself is worth it.

I'm also very glad that I am able to accept NDE testimony! Its been very enriching and has brought me closer to many people Ihave come to love.

Scriptures that I like are often from the Gospel of John, that is the most spiritual gospel. I like where the rabbi asks Jesus what he needs to do to enter the kingdom of heaven and Jesus says only love your neighbor as yourself. The core of Jesus' teachings is that simple and the rest is mostly dominant church theology that was added later. BS like the original sin and such. It wasn't part of JC's teachings. He came to save people from themselves, from forgetting to love in the face of adversity, from rules and regulations stipulated by the rabbinate (and we all have our rabbinates, even today). Sin is the hebrew word for "missing the mark", the same as not getting the point. How awful it is to miss the point of your own life? That's what Jesus died for, to underline that death is nothing, life is everything, and love makes it so!

Holy Crap, you sure got me preaching there ;-)

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by Ace » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:31 pm

ano1 wrote:StevieRay,
I guess what I was mostly trying to say, is; I wish people wouldn't get so hyped up on our ndes. Life changing they are. But, we only stayed a short time. No one knows beyond near death. Death itself is likely to be very different than our experiences.
I tend to agree with ano1. NDEs are interesting, and yes, life changing. But there is life after an NDE, and that is important too.

I get a little frustrated with afterlife tourism. Live your life! I didn't come back thinking that life wasn't important and that I should just be biding my time until I leave again. I came back knowing that life is a gift. Enjoy it! Jump in and live it!

StevieRay
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:00 pm

ano1 and Ace,

Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, and pardon my keen interest in this subject, but it's not everyday that I get to talk with people who (in some cases) had a real one-on-one encounter with God.

StevieRay
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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by StevieRay » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:17 pm

Dennis, yes, you're preaching there, brother! And I love it! haha.

Hey, thanks for the thoughtful and thorough response. I really appreciate it. And I enjoyed your story. In a sense, I can relate to it, because I've always been a big lover of nature and see God in everything--from ants and rocks to birds, insects and trees. In fact, nature is what initially drew me to God--and still does today. Something tells me that if I was ever to have an STE, it would be a lot like yours.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by DennisMe » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:10 am

Same here big nature lover! I love to go kayakking, windsurfing, sailing, swimming, hiking, cycling, you name it! I even did some hang-gliding. Just feeling the wind in my face makes me feel alive (I've had a close brush with death or two and that makes me feel more alive too, strangely enough). I think life and this beautiful blue marble we call Earth is such a great gift, we just need to open our eyes to all its wonders.
Like the Rock band Queen sang "Its a miracle".

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by Ace » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:02 pm

StevieRay wrote:ano1 and Ace,

Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, and pardon my keen interest in this subject, but it's not everyday that I get to talk with people who (in some cases) had a real one-on-one encounter with God.
Keep in mind that it is possible to have an NDE and not interpret the experience as "god".

I'm still pretty agnostic after three NDEs. To me Consciousness, even a universal consciousness, doesn't have to be interpreted as god.

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Re: A few thoughts and questions about NDEs

Post by michellekia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:06 pm

Your beliefs are just that..beliefs.

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